Rediculous Loans!!!!

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Rediculous Loans!!!!

evertonian · Cult Status

That is a loophole that is there at the moment, Mark, and credit to Dale at Norwich he managed to get the right contacts in the game and pull it off.

Of course you could argue that it is unfair towards Soton and Leicester but they had exactly the same opportunities to get players in as Norwich did. Perhaps we should have a rule put in that there are no incoming loans after Week 18 for example, just to keep the game lifelike and keep everyone happy. After all, you dont see loans coming into any league in late May do you??

thanks

rob

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Good point mate, well made too. I think there may be a rule coming in! But i would consider it more unsportsmanlike and against the spirit of the game and i know Steve (Leicester) had the opportunity to take some huge names on loan but refused for that very reason. It was a shambles in my eyes. But as you said there is a loophole, i just think its pretty bad exploiting it!

Mark
Cov FC

evertonian · Cult Status

maybe he now feels that he should have taken the opportunity and brought them in!!!

im sure that steve will put his own points across regarding this, and so will dale at norwich and stu who loaned him the player also. its a very interesting argument.

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Yep it is also a fair point. I am just stirring up a bit of contravesy....come on it never hurt anyone! lol

Mark
Cov FC

pricey · Cult Status

there are a few other Rediculous Loans at league 1 clubs that were in play offs that you would never see in real life but were just not good enough in the end

and alves didn't just send me up there has been a lot of hard work put in by me alves is just 1 man who wasn't with me for all of the season so he didn't get me to play offs for the final i picked a side without one of my best players and a way i haven't played all season

don't mind you having a go mate as no rules were broken but wish you would look at other sides first

Football Academy · Cult Status

Ok a few points to make.

Firstly, this is a discussion I had with a number of managers earlier in the season. I caught wind of certain clubs attemtping to bring two + players in from top European clubs for the play offs. One player maybe, but more is a little over the top and I said then that a transfer window will be included next season for the last month(ish) where no transfers can happen to stop this. You may complain that I say transfers not loans, but just stopping loans will mean people will do a trade for the playoffs and trade back after (managers make very clever use of this transfer system on FA as this has already happened before).

Secondly, not wanting to put him in it but Steve (Leicester) who is being praised for not pulling in big names, only decided against this when he was told that lots of top European players in the play offs will increase expectations. He would have been expected to go up if he brought in Fabrigas and Torres, for obvious reasons. So his turning them down would be to secure his job to some extent.

Thirdly, is there a difference in loaning a top player from your parent club? I'm talking about one here, as I've already said I think more than one is over the top. Is this not a benefit of the feeder club system thats been developed? As part of a payment for the small club taking weaker players all season? Norwich had 4 Sevilla players most of the season I believe for example.

Fourthly, and this is from being able to know the engine so is a personal note on the subject, if teams can't beat Norwich when they're playing only one fullback, do they deserve to go up? The game is set to punish teams who play an unbalanced formation as clearly if you're against a team with no leftback, you stick the ball in that corner all the time and make the most of it. A team winning the playoffs with an odd formation has to go down as a missed opportunity by those who lost, in my opinion.

Finally, loans aren't everything. Barcelona and Messi couldn't help Leeds make the playoffs at the end of the day.

Well done to everyone who won tonight. Someone said to me it was sad to be celebrating, I simply pointed out I'm sure some people would rather swap places and be 'sadly' celebrating promotion tonight.

Richard.

Safehands · Cult Status

it is quite interesting actually

You can either admire the managers invovled for spotting the loophole and for having enough relationships with top flight managers to actually get hold of superstars - or you can criticse them for ruining the spirit of a closely fought season

I just wanted to clear something up regarding loans between Leicester and Arsenal

Just to confirm some facts - I actually offerred Steve at Leicester my entire first team (and a choice of 2 of them) for the playoffs after he enquired months ago. He was also the first manager to approach me about this "too good to be true" loophole - so credit to him lol. We ended up deciding that Henry and Fabregas were to be the two players joining - on the upstanding that I was out of all the cups and locked up 4th place etc

I felt that is an option he shouldnt use to be honest and we spoke many times about it. I think he deserves a lot of praise for NOT taking the players, as i was more than willing to let them (as i did with JD at Cheivo) join

I have my suspicions that Henry and Fabby would have destroyed teams at this level with a solid Leicester team around them - but we agreed that this game is about more than winning at any cost and it was quite unfair as

1. not every team has a feeder club
2. league one was a close league and had bee all season without superstars joining
3. it might ruin the spectacle of the playoff games to a simple who had the most loanees

To be honest - i dont think any managers reputation has been ruined. People that loaned player in didnt break any rules - but honestly i think it was a little unfair on the competition

Considering it ended up perhaps costing Steve a promotion - fairplay and well done - you have my backing for next year because of the decision this year - and i think it was fairer all round

Lastly - hasnt a little of the gloss been lost from Norwichs win because of this? Some media suggested Alves didnt play all that much of a part in the win - but i think he was a vital aspect - combines with what looks like some great tactics and selection by the Norwich manager to be fair

just my two pence worth anyway lol

cheers

Simon

Steve · Cult Status

I had raised this with FA earlier in the season when I was still looking at the possibility of the play-offs and heard about some teams looking to bus in some mercenaries from the top leagues.

Yes it is in the rules but no it isn't right. Leicester made the right decision, whether for the right or wrong reasons doesn't matter - it was still the right decision. Norwich are a decent team and are one of the teams who deserved to go up (they were the only team to beat me last season) - I doubt Alves made the difference in the play-offs, but people think he did so I'm afraid that one will stick!

The team I feel most sorry for on here is Crystal Palace as they have built up a very solid team whereas others (e.g. Southampton) either had a very good team but miscalculated and pushed the same group of players too hard to get a full season and got hit late on with lots of injuries / suspensions. Or teams who had a revolving door in the changing room and spent more time buying and selling rather than settle on a team and try to get the best out of it.

I suggested to FA that there should be a shut off point (as someone else has already said) around two weeks after the half way point in the season. After this there are no loans unless you can demonstrat a team crisis e.g. you have no available player in a position due to long term injury. An alternative would be that loans don't end at the start of the season but are full season or full half season. So if you brought in Henry in week 20 for a half season he doesn't just stay until after the play-offs but has to stay until the next half season point. I suspect this would make the top clubs rather less eager to loan out the big guns.

Steve

pricey · Cult Status

just reading the media and the coventry boss having another go anfd going on about the hard work that Leicester chave done does that include loaning players like Tom Huddlestone, Jermain Defoe and Theo Walcott now does he think that thease are Rediculous Loansmost prob not as he is a mate of steve but in real life thease players would never look twich at poor club like leicester and thats 3 players not just one at the end of the day the leicester boss didn't have the tactical mind to win the play off and that will be proved next season along with a few other clubs in league 1

rant over

Safehands · Cult Status

To be fair Pricey - Walcott and Huddlestone are hardly stars currently based purely on stats and would not have cut it in the Premiership so would almost definitly gone out on loan somehwere (i had upwards of 7 offers for Walcott originally infact) - they arent in the same league as Henry, Fabby, Messi, Alves etc - those players werent really what the criticism was about was it?

And Defoe while good - isnt a superstar either and has been there all year - so that one didnt strike me as ridicolous either

To be honest - i think most good points have been raised now (Steves post above was very concise i thought) so instead of having a week long fight with each other - perhaps we can say well done to Norwich for the victory and let that be the end of it?

cheers

Besty · Cult Status

I think that everyone has their opinion at the end of the day about what is right and what is wrong but the defining factor is that no rules have been broken. The new FA has just completed its first season so there are bound to be grey areas, which will only add to the game and improve it in the seasons to come.

Everyone had an opportunity to exercise the 'loophole' in the rules over the loaning in of players for the play-offs and for the entire season, and if a manager decides to use this opportunity then fair play to him/her.

I only had one player on loan during the season which was an average player from Cardiff to help me out when i started the game, but it was my choice not to loan in anymore, i could have if i wanted to but i didn't and this was my choice as i wanted to see just how i would cope with the basic team at Wolves as this is what i have to work with in the future. For example, Norwich will not have Alves next season so may struggle, on the other hand they may do fine, when you make a decision then you have to live with whatever outcome and that is what being a football manager is all about, decision making.

I'm sure this will not be the end of the issue by any means, but i can't see any reason why people can complain about what has gone on, nothing has been done underhand or sneakily, simply exercising the right to loan payers whenever they can, this may be addressed next season or it may be not but either way it certainly makes for an interesting Season 2.

Cheers

Jamie

Luke_C · Cult Status

Everyone had the option and each manager chose to loan someone in or not.

Personally I loaned in Recoba but that wasnt just for the play/offs, I was looking for a striker on loan for most of the second half of the season. Luckily Recoba became available once Inter had not so much to play for and I then got a striker I needed for the rest of the season. As it turns out he scored 3 and created 1 in the play/offs for me. I wouldnt say that was unfair on Preston or Derby, they could have done the same. I had Adebayor on the bench anyway so it was just a case of rotation and then playing the best team to beat my opposition.

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Boooo... Come on lets keep the debate rolling. Nothing like some real juicy controversy. lol. Pricey please dont feel that i have launched a personal attack on you. As your in my league your just an easy target for me to get my point across. The media is just a bit of a laugh mate...you gotta work the media nowadays...at least everyone is talking about norwich!

Simon · Cult Status

Everyone seems to have overlooked my loan of the mighty Sturridge for the last two weeks of the season. After all, he did win me a game scoring the only goal!

Simon
WBA

Steve · Cult Status

Besty

pricey · Cult Status

RE: Rediculous Loans!!!!

Besty · Cult Status

"Oi. Watch it - who are you calling average?"

Lol sorry Steve didn't mean to offend you, did a great job at Wolves for me, just meant that you're average compared to players like Alves! i'll word my comments better in the future haha!

-- Edited by Besty at 09:44, 2007-12-16

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

pricey wrote:

Spartikus47 wrote:

Boooo... Come on lets keep the debate rolling. Nothing like some real juicy controversy. lol. Pricey please dont feel that i have launched a personal attack on you. As your in my league your just an easy target for me to get my point across. The media is just a bit of a laugh mate...you gotta work the media nowadays...at least everyone is talking about norwich!

no i'm not i won the play offs :) lol

Won is a bit of a strong word mate....

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

By the way can i just say what a great end to the season! Nice and contraversial....Let the rivalries begin! lol Also i heard that most of the West Brom team tested positive for Nandralone and the FA are thinking about point deductions. lol!

Stu · Cult Status

Maybe FA can introduce an end of season tournament for small clubs like Coventry to keep them busy and stop them moaning so much!

If a transfer window is brought in that won't stop me loaning my feeder club one good player if they want them for the playoffs. Part of our agreement is my total support and maybe that's why we're better than the umbrella group. I respect my co-clubs enough to lose a star for a month if it helps the group in general. Lots of people would loan a playeri n for the playoffs in the last game and that was accepted. I think it's people trying to loan in lots of players just for the playoffs who have created the perception of a problem

Whatever this discussion decides Rob and Dale you both have my total backing in the future seasons with money and loans as we've agreed

Stu

pricey · Cult Status

well if coventy were any good iand been there then i doubt the result would have made be and different at the end of the day the two best teams that were in the play offs were in the final enjoy your strugle next season will you Spartikus47 i'm sure when you lose a few game you will ant to leave coventry hopefully we can meet in the cup wd if you could fix that it would be great lol see how norwich play then without alves

dale
norwich

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

pricey wrote:

well if coventy were any good iand been there then i doubt the result would have made be and different at the end of the day the two best teams that were in the play offs were in the final enjoy your strugle next season will you Spartikus47 i'm sure when you lose a few game you will ant to leave coventry hopefully we can meet in the cup wd if you could fix that it would be great lol see how norwich play then without alves

dale
norwich

LOL as much as i would like to respond to this i actually have no idea what it is your trying to say. Is this English or a strange new language?

pricey · Cult Status

stupid key board will translate for you

well if coventy were any good and been there then i doubt the result would have been any different at the end of the day the two best teams that were in the play offs were in the final. Enjoy your strugle next season will you Spartikus47 i'm sure when you lose a few game you will want to leave coventry and beg wd for a new job. But hopefully we can meet in the cup wd if you could fix that it would be great lol see how norwich play then without alves

that make it better for you?

evertonian · Cult Status

dale didnt break any rules or any promises so he hasnt done anything wrong at all....i cant see why this row is still going on

Bluebird99 · Cult Status

Right..........

As I have been included in most of theses threds (rightly so) then I think maybe I should add my views on it.

I did origianally decide to contact Simon about the possiblity of loaning Henry and Fabregas and I spotted the loop-hole and wanted to give myself the best possible chance of promotion. Simon kindly agreed although did warn of the possible back-lash (That Dale is now getting) if I was to go up.

I think it's really unfail of Rich to say that the only reason I didn't take the loans is because it would raise expectations and if you really think that Rich then I'm sorry but the truth is - Even though I was happy to have superstars comingm I always had the nagging thought that this type of thing would happen and even if I did go up - It wouldn't feel like a victory and I would end up coming straight back down the following year. Like Simon said, We had lengthy conversations about it and must have exchange 20+ emails on the matter. I didn't want to take the gloss off a very good reputation that Simon has built up, I am still fairly new to the game and I am in it for the long run so didn't want to jerperdise my chance of playing it for a long time. All these factors haelped me decide that I would try and go up fairly.

I feel I can't slag Dale off too much as I was one of the first to spot this but what I will say to Dale is - Surely all this hatred etc wasn't worth it and yes you did win the playoffs but surely it doesn't feel that good anymore? Also Dale, to say that Alves didn't win you the Playoffs is slightly naive. If I'm not mistaken you wouldn't have been in the Play-off final at all if wasn't for him as he scored one and made 2!!!!!

Anyway, I'm not stiring it up but just stating facts. Good luck to Norwich next season but I feel that you got a long season ahead.

Steve
Leicester City

Football Academy · Cult Status

In response to your disappointment in my comments Steve, I'll remind you that I said "So his turning them down would be to secure his job to some extent." While you may have been discussing it with other people, it was right after your talk with me that you decided not to take the loan players.

I think as some have said, this is a little out of context. If you look elsewhere other than Norwich, Recoba arrived at Man City and played a major role in the playoffs, van Persie at Chievo, and so on. The idea of loaning in one player was common in the old FA which is probably why barring Simon its new players unhappy with loans in the playoffs. I've said I'll make changes for season 2, if managers wish to loan out players for months to teams then thats their choice and its to the benefit of the recieving club but I disagree with putting down achievements on here. If you want to have your little rant, theres the media page. Keep it all in the game and good natured by having it there please. Lets not spoil what was an exciting season especially in League One.

Once again, well done to all those who achieved something last season.

Richard.

Jozz · Cult Status

Although when Richard posts a summing up post I dont normally add to it, but since I have only logged on just now, and missed the playoff results I would like to say in respect of van Persie, I loaned him from Simon as he and I have known each other for a long time and the relationship we have meant he was happy to loan me his player. I even asked to loan other players solely for the play offs when it became apparent that Leicester were not going to take them. As it happened Simon said that he did not feel that that was in the spirit of the game, and it was only then that it occured to me that anyone would have a problem with high profile loans.

Chievo dont have a feeder team and are not part of an umbrella system, but that is partly because I have young talent which I am keen to give games to, so they improve.

I dont see and never have seen it as a loophole to bring in loan players for the playoffs. Frankly if people didnt want to use high profile players and are now regretting it they should have posted something about it long before it became a regret. Whether you agree with that or not, I will have to finish in the top 9 of Serie A unless I want the sack so the pressure is well and truely on....

And on a final point I like Dales Norwich string of being the Winers!

JD Chievo

Bluebird99 · Cult Status

JD - I can assure you mate that it's far from a regret. With what has been written on here - I am more than glad that I pulled out of loaning those players.

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Any chance of Daniel Alves on loan?

Rhino · Cult Status

Mark...tut tut!

Chris

messiah · Cult Status

you cannot tell me coventry will not take loans from their group of helpers this season.

you are lucky we play each other at week 9 mark. i would not want to add to your misery so soon.

biggrin

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Look genuinely i just wanted to stoke the flames a bit! Dale its only a bit of a laugh mate, come on we need controversy in football. What is this misery i am supposed to have???? lol

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

messiah wrote:

you cannot tell me coventry will not take loans from their group of helpers this season.

you are lucky we play each other at week 9 mark. i would not want to add to your misery so soon.

I resent that. I will have you know that Coventry are a family club who only employ players who call Coventry there home from birth. Not many people know this but Del Piero was actually born in Coventry and a product of the famous Sky Blues youth system. He actually has Peter NdLovu tatooed on his right thigh!

-- Edited by Spartikus47 at 18:18, 2007-12-17

messiah · Cult Status

the misery of missing out on the play offs. I am sure it is a family club. del piero will be wishing he was born in watford by the end of this season.

biggrin

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

messiah wrote:

the misery of missing out on the play offs. I am sure it is a family club. del piero will be wishing he was born in watford by the end of this season.

What would he do with his tatoo?

GarethGardner · Cult Status

This loan argument is getting boring boys. Rich has sorted it for this year so why cant people just let it drop

pricey · Cult Status

Spartikus47 wrote:

Look genuinely i just wanted to stoke the flames a bit! Dale its only a bit of a laugh mate, come on we need controversy in football. What is this misery i am supposed to have???? lol

not said any diff mate tbh i don't mind being the most hated lol no one likes the top managers do they smile

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

hmmm summin like that. look good luck next year mate! Can we end it there.

pricey · Cult Status

yeah think we can

thanks for the good luck think i'm gonna need it lol good luck to you to

evertonian · Cult Status

i think this is one of, if not THE, longest thread on the whole message board, which just shows how heated it is!!!

good to know its all sorted now