MOTFA Episode One – Close Season ‘08 Scouting Review

Safehands · Cult Status

MOTFA Episode One – Close Season ‘08 Scouting Review

Simon · Cult Status

I agree Simon, I too feel there is a massive potential here. Whether it is only one accessable to the wealthier clubs and one that neglects smaller clubs remains to be seen.

At Valladolid, I have the finds to afford scouts, but I also have probably the best assistant for youth players, so it isn't really something that I will use - with the likes of Jesus and Sergio coming through the youth team, there isn't really any need to spend money on gambling.

The money I have at the club currently is going on an attacking player - I have a solid squad, but I need a goalscorer. For this sort of shopping (when you need a particular player), I dont think the scouting option is the best one. However I do think that teams such as Chelsea, Roma and Sevilla can take hold of this opportunity where they can pad out their already successful squad.

Bluebird99 · Cult Status

I also agree that there is potential here to really broaden the search for quality players but having worked in the lower leagues, I really think that this will only benefit the major clubs.

When you look at the likes of Manchester United and Chelsea, they have a healthy amounts of money and could probably afford to put a scout in most of the regions without missing the money whereas teams in the lowest leagues will have to take a massive gamble on spending £2.5m on a scout when that sort of money could go towards a new player.

Money is very tight in leagues such as League 1, Seria B and the Spanish Segunda division so I predict that you won't see many clubs in those division buying a scout.

I agree that if you have a parent club then that could be a way around it as you could ask you parent club to recommend players from a region they are currently scouting.

On a plus side though, it could mean that more players who are pushed out by new foreign players could end up working their way down the divisions and actually help raise the quality of the lower leagues.

All in all though I think that this is a positive move and it is good to see FA looking to progress all the time.

evertonian · Cult Status

Just a quick note to Steve (Leicester) - I guess the idea of the donations means that if you really want to then you could buy up scouting regions without affecting your bank balance.

And although bigger clubs have more money to spend, you have to remember that it will cost them a lot more money to improve their squads than it would for a smaller club to.

Rob

Bluebird99 · Cult Status

evertonian wrote:

Just a quick note to Steve (Leicester) - I guess the idea of the donations means that if you really want to then you could buy up scouting regions without affecting your bank balance.

And although bigger clubs have more money to spend, you have to remember that it will cost them a lot more money to improve their squads than it would for a smaller club to.

Rob

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the imput and I totally take on board your point, I just look forward to seeing the full range of players that will be available and the prices that they will be going for.

I still think that it's a huge gamble for a side in the lower divisions to spend £2.5m on what would ultimatley be advice. I believe that alot of the managers in League 1 etc will trust that they have what it takes use the extra £2.5m towards a player from the current leagues.

evertonian · Cult Status

Steve,

Totally agree with you. I don't think that many managers in the lower leagues will spend their money on scouts at all. But, whilst saying that, if the prices that players go for are reasonable then there could be a bargain to be had - especially if the players on offer aren't really good enough for the biggest clubs who would have money available

I'm going to consider my options definitely before I buy a scout - because I'd have to be sure that I'd have some money left by the half way stage of the season to buy players!

Safehands · Cult Status

Its an interesting point regarding the smaller clubs to be honest

I think on paper most new introductions to any game will benefit the bigger clubs first of all as naturally they are normally the best placed to take advantage normally through circumstance

But are the smaller clubs missing a trick here? Scouts are bound to unearth a wide range of talented and perhaps in some cases, average players. If only a few smaller clubs decide to make the effort to purchase a scout then the competition will be less for these clubs to fight it out for these players. Yes, the big clubs may still buy these players for resale or squad value - but ultimately they may be used as part of deals to secure better players from the smaller clubs - so hopefully over the course of the season it will benefit all

thats the theory - the practice may be different!

another idea is to conduct private scouting and decide on one area in the hope that the players who have your eye on will turn up officially by way of the scouts. For instance - Benzema will be getting a lot of exposure in the summer - this is no secret - so how many clubs will only focus on the french national pool for this one player? or is it worth casting the net a little wider? again this will benefit the clubs with more money naturally - but you may see smaller to meduim size clubs using scouting heavilly in order to snatch that "one big player" while others focus on the ones avaliable generally

i would imagine it will be a while before we see the true ins and outs of this system!

and as mentioned - one scout will be avaliable by other means from the club so no-one is excluded if they dont want to be regardless of money avaliable in the transfer kitty

Simon · Cult Status

Simon, you say that smaller clubs will 'fight it out', but I dont think that will be the case. Just looking at the Spanish second league there are only two clubs who have more than £6 million in their banks and after taking away the 2.5 entrance fee I dont think that the teams with a couple of million left over could afford even the weaker players and all it will really do is push up the prices unnecessarily and just exacerbate the situation for smaller clubs. But I suppose all that anyone can do is atleast wait until the first lot of players come out the scouting.

What are people's opinions on the countries available to scout in?

Belizeno · Cult Status

Well, first of all, one thing that would affect us the smaller club is: what countries are available?!. The entire prospect of available countries, in my opinion, will be the actual deciding factor of whether and how scouting will affect smaller clubs. For example, with a dominating availability of European countries, we can foresee higher transfer fees. Meaning, bigger clubs with the funds the pay them will get the first hand. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Now if scouting is concentrated in Latin America, we the smaller club owners might have more chances and options, since the region is known to have talented players with more affordable price tags. Any sense here, or is the hangover speaking?

Football Academy · Cult Status

FA Sporting Director.

There's been a few points brought up that maybe need highlighting in the debate.

Agreed any progression FA makes will be seen as benefitting the bigger clubs more, but is this a general sweeping statement?

Firstly a scout will be assigned to anybody who donates at the start of the season. Yes you may not want to pay anything, but those who do pay in appreciation of the work that goes into the game will get a scout at no cost to their bank balance. I've no real idea of how many will take up the donation option at the start of each season but certainly theres a chance for all leagues to dabble in the scouting market through this.

As has been mentioned, not every player the scout finds will be a top player. With a lack of certain positions such as LM, RB and LB, any decent players who appear in the scouting lists in these positions may not be world class but they could be vital to balancing the lower league teams.

The other way it will benefit all is the trickle down effect it will have. Due to the limit of a squad size, if bigger clubs want to invest in scouting players they will have to make room in their own squads. This could see their weaker players sold on the cheap and their youth players also, as managers may lean towards scouting rather than trying to develop their own young players.

Managers are getting more ways to develop their management style. We'll see tactically astute managers over achieving with seemingly poor players, people who do well in the transfer market, people who invest in the scouting market, people who develop young players... there are enough ways of developing a team now that one manager can't use every option and will have to make decisions on whether to drop youth development or maybe scouting, or something else. The limit of 22 players per squad will enforce this.

The other battle we'll see is where people decide to employ scouts. It could be that the big clubs all go for a French scout for example, which would leave the other scouts free for the lower clubs. If no big club has a scout in your region, it removes the big spending power against you. In the general market, theres always a chance a big club could come in and out bid you. If you're in a scouting region for the season with only low league clubs, its a much more level playing field when it comes to bidding power.

Safehands · Cult Status

"And so the new season is upon us and strategies in the Scouting market will begin to come to plan over the next 5 weeks before the first window opens

Has anyone changed their minds in light of more / less money invested from their boards? And what of the rumoured link up between Coventry and a small set of other clubs?"

Simon · Cult Status

Yes, I will be putting a scout forward. Although I will not reveal where. I am happy with the money given to me, but in the long run, £3 million isnt going to bring in a massive player. I'll just have to hope my scouting and extra money combine to just pip another to the rights to a decent player.

I already know there are other small groups of managers, but as I said to a fellow manager yesterday; I know there is nothing against the rules but I would be pretty annoyed if a large club beat me to a player only for him to end up at a small club. Does anyone know which clubs are involved with Coventry?

Bluebird99 · Cult Status

I'm still very unsure on this stratergy. It's intresting to se Mark at Coventry head up a foucs group of managers looking to find abit of a loop hole in the system and work it to their advantage. It's these desperate measures that make me think that the only people getting the thick end of the wedge are the so called "Supper Clubs" that have endless pots of cash.

We'll have to wait and see and I'm sure that I will be adding a scout but will monitor the affectivness of it oer this season.

JOP · Cult Status

Sunderland were approached but turned down the offer, due to being unsure of the system. Could work / Could fail.

Good luck to who are involved, not sure i'm going to plough money into it yet (Plus I havn't got any!)

Simon · Cult Status

I was sceptical to begin with, but actually everyone Ive chatted to has said that they will be getting a scout. So I'm not really sure now.

messiah · Cult Status

I think the scouts will be an interesting part of the game and we will not see the full effects this season because people will be looking at how it works and if they can really benefit from this. I think some people who buy scouts will waste that fee and not take full advantage and I think people will have sat back for a season to save their money and see how things work out.

I was approached to join the scouting pool that has sprung from Coventry and I turned it down. I read carefully what was being proposed and I saw too many problems with it to think it was something I would benefit from. I think people are trying to replicate the success of the feeder club idea but I do not think the loop hole that was mentioned exists. The idea that lots of little clubs working together can benefit falls apart when you introduce the reality that they still have to bid against teams with more money. I think the teams who will join that idea will be the teams who have not much money and that just makes them weak in the transfer market still. I can see this group going the way of the umbrella group from last season that had very little effect for all the excitement the announcement caused.

I have spoken to my partner team to make sure we do not have a scout in the same area but this is not to cast the net wider it is to avoid us bidding against each other for the same player because that is a waste of resources. Simon has more money so it does not make sense for me to compete with him for these new players. I think managers will benefit from scouts if they try to avoid the same areas as the big spending teams instead of trying to cover every angle with no money to back them.

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Coventry City would like to point out that at no point were Watford, or Jamie Walker, directly approached to enter into the Scouting Pool system. They may have been informally contacted by an individual in that scheme on an ad hoc basis but when a provisional list of names was drafted up of those who we wanted in the scheme Mr Walker was not included.

The intracacies of the scouting pool are still as yet unconfirmed but all the managers involved have expressed their appreciation of the possibilities it could hold for them. Coventry City have acted as a face for the scheme but are only a small cog in the works, we currently have four managers with excellent reputations on the game keen to help each other out.

Also with regards to the Umbrella system if you cast your eye back over last season 8 loans were agreed between member clubs. It helped forge fantastic relationships for Coventry City and ultimately played an important role in a successful season.

Coventry City suggest that any presumptions about any scheme are just that, and their manager Mark Rollings will be representing them in MOTFA next week to answer any questions involved.

Simon · Cult Status

That is one way of getting yourself on the show!

Would you care to name those other three managers. Could two of them be Amilcar Vasquez of Livorno and Thomas Barry of Empoli? And incase you dont get on the show, can I ask how your system will work? Because if those two are with you then you only have £3 million between the three of you. Jamie alone has more money than you.

But questions aside, I do appreciate that you are trying to best the big clubs in the transfer market - something that I unfortunately know about all too well. I also think that scouting could go the way of the foreign player market if plans like these dont work, so best of luck!

evertonian · Cult Status

Agreed Simon. Even without knowing the ins and outs of the plan, for me unless the players offered in the scouting are super cheap (which I doubt) then you will all have to sell a few players quickly on the chance of being able to beat a bigger club to a scouted player. Seems a bit risky to me.
If I had limited funds, I don't think I'd be prepared to spend it on a player that another manager in the group wants me to buy for him, even if I would get it back in the long term.

As far as I can see, this setup would only work for the rich clubs (and no Dale I don't consider Recreativo as rich lol) because they can afford to buy the scout and then pay for a player on top of that.

Just my opinion. I too would be interested to hear how you plan to make it work Mark.

Thanks

Rob

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

I have already been invited into the studio next week by Mr Newcombe so will be clarifying most things then.

As for the managers involved i can categorically state that neither Livorno or Empoli are part of the scheme. Both managers expressed a keen interest, as did many, but due to keen interest they just missed out.

Simon your best wishes mean a lot. That is exactly what the scheme is intended towards as the big clubs so often have the monopoly on any such initiatives. This is merely an attempt to balance the power slightly and should it work or not i will continue to pioneer such schemes in an attempt to succeed. I would have considered you at the very top of the wish list for this and if in the future anyone drops out i would welcome your interest.

I hope Mr Newcombe doesn't mind me revealing my invitation to next weeks show...It just felt the appropriate time. I will answer most questions then.

messiah · Cult Status

It will be interesting to see who the managers involved are. I think the links between managers in the game say a lot about what sort of manager you are. I get the impression steve and simon from arsenal compliment each other and stuart has success every season with the managers he works with I think and I know I am pleased to have a link with someone as established as simon at real valladolid. we might have started our link at the very bottom of the games leagues but I am sure we will both reach the heights we have before. half of the Umbrella group has had no effect or left the game so it does not look good for gareth and the other mystery managers.

GarethGardner · Cult Status

How come my name is in this scouting group ? Jamie I asked for your advice and took heed of it. I applyed for the scouting group at 1st but was told in an email that I would not be chosen to get involved. I suspect it was because I was in the middle of a misunderstanding with another club that everybody knows about.
For me, I think the scouting pool may work but it depends how good the players are in the regions. For example Benzema would be amazing in the French part of the scouts in France but the big clubs will get him, It all depends what the next tier of players are if you get me. I understand you and Mark have your differences but please dont get me involved in the media frenzy as Im trying to have a quiet season now Im out of League 1 and my recent link ups have ended.

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Jamie please see media...Clarify what i mean before you spout off hey???

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about Coventry and i am not sure why. Everyone in league one had a spirited and jovial relationship, which resulted in some humurous and sometimes edgey media. For some reason you seem to take it personally.

There is noone i am more scathing about in the media than steve at times and we are good mates. I would just like to remind you it is just a game and we are all having fun.

As for the other managers involved i think you will find they are very reputable indeed. Infact two got promoted last year and the others only just missed out.

messiah · Cult Status

You take my media seriously and say I am the one who takes it to heart. in your own post you contradict yourself but after the scouting fiasco I am not surprised. I am sorry gareth your email was written as an invite which is why I thought you were already in. I am pleased to took my warning. I took your email as a compliment and I hold no bad opinion of you gareth.

to stop mark taking us away from the motfa format I will take us back to the topic. I agree with simons (rv) point about the money. if I can out bid them all I think the group offers not much advantage.

Spartikus47 · Cult Status

Ok Jamie thats fine. We are not going to agree so i suggest we draw a line under it.

And in my opinion the smaller clubs don't get the opportunity to partake in some areas of the game because of the finances. The system is trying to help towards fixing that.

However, I also think its just a natural part of football that there are financial divides. So its a tough one to call.

messiah · Cult Status

I have managed napoli and watford in two bottom leagues in this game when I re joined and I do not feel I have missed on any part of the game. I cannot bid for ronaldo or ramos but I enjoy that different challenge. lots of managers want to move to that super club but I have been there and when you win all trophies and buy the top players and then buy all the top youth players there is no where to go then. my old inter team could have remained unbeaten for many seasons because my youth players were nearly good enough to break into my unbeaten first team. that is why I am enjoying the challenges of being restricted in the transfer market. I could not name a part of the game I have missed out on because I am at watford.

I know this is the scouting review but the stadiums are closely linked and I think that is a great way to reward managers for staying where they are. I think the balance between scouts and stadiums works for everyone.

Simon · Cult Status

Spartikus47 wrote:

Simon your best wishes mean a lot. That is exactly what the scheme is intended towards as the big clubs so often have the monopoly on any such initiatives. This is merely an attempt to balance the power slightly and should it work or not i will continue to pioneer such schemes in an attempt to succeed. I would have considered you at the very top of the wish list for this and if in the future anyone drops out i would welcome your interest.

Thanks for the offer Mark - but I'll stick with Jamie as I cant foresee any future problems and we've alrady worked well for a number of seasons over various clubs.

And Jamie, the only reason nobody beat you at Inter was that you never faced the might of West Brom (in the days when we had Christiano Ronaldo and Eto'o).

But back to the subject of scouting - Simon and Steve (or anyone else by that matter); what are looking for in the scouting and who would interest you? For example Im looking for a goalscorer, so I would very much be interested in Benzima or Klose. Simon I know your looking for a goal keeper - any ideas?

Simon

Bluebird99 · Cult Status

Well I think that my main priorities are a Central Defender but being in Seria B, I think any player could really improve my squad at the moment so I'm just looking forward to seeing what will be available.

If I ever manage to donate, I will have think about which region I will be looking at.

paulh_85 · Cult Status

messiah wrote:

I have managed napoli and watford in two bottom leagues in this game when I re joined and I do not feel I have missed on any part of the game. I cannot bid for ronaldo or ramos but I enjoy that different challenge. lots of managers want to move to that super club but I have been there and when you win all trophies and buy the top players and then buy all the top youth players there is no where to go then. my old inter team could have remained unbeaten for many seasons because my youth players were nearly good enough to break into my unbeaten first team. that is why I am enjoying the challenges of being restricted in the transfer market. I could not name a part of the game I have missed out on because I am at watford.

wow, u really do love yourself dont you

Safehands · Cult Status

Simon wrote:

Spartikus47 wrote:

Simon your best wishes mean a lot. That is exactly what the scheme is intended towards as the big clubs so often have the monopoly on any such initiatives. This is merely an attempt to balance the power slightly and should it work or not i will continue to pioneer such schemes in an attempt to succeed. I would have considered you at the very top of the wish list for this and if in the future anyone drops out i would welcome your interest.
Thanks for the offer Mark - but I'll stick with Jamie as I cant foresee any future problems and we've alrady worked well for a number of seasons over various clubs.

And Jamie, the only reason nobody beat you at Inter was that you never faced the might of West Brom (in the days when we had Christiano Ronaldo and Eto'o).

But back to the subject of scouting - Simon and Steve (or anyone else by that matter); what are looking for in the scouting and who would interest you? For example Im looking for a goalscorer, so I would very much be interested in Benzima or Klose. Simon I know your looking for a goal keeper - any ideas?

Simon

Good morning all

Thanks for getting back to the subject at hand Simon! Much appreciated

To be honest, although I have purchased a scout in a region close to my heart, I very much doubt to use him this season. Im intrigued to see how others play the system, and if the price is right, i may well choose to sell a player in the first week of scouting in order to purchase an applicable player the week after (if the timelines make this possible of course!)

I am indeed looking for a goalkeeper but think I have made at least headway in that regard so my options may be limited when the scouting window opens so its very much up in the air for Arsenal at the moment

Traditionally though GK's command lesser prices than outfield players - but this system is more to do with beating rival teams to the purchase of that one player - so interesting in that regard. I am also keen to see the spread of players and prices in each region and may use it as a stepping stone to ascertain the systems use for the following season

I also think that many, such as myself, will focus on staduim expansion rather than short term gains. Its that age old adage about focusing on the long term future of the club for increased revenues - or if you plan to change clubs a lot perhaps focusing more on players?

One thing is certain - it will be an interesting few weeks!!

-- Edited by Safehands at 14:34, 2008-06-19

Simon · Cult Status

Do you have any ideas on what ticket price you are going to set? I know that if you set it too high then the fans wont go to games, but is this bar raised if your popularity among fans is high? I'll probably look at setting it quite high - maybe around £17, but if that is too high then I might bring it down (or not!).

Does anyone know how we are notified about how fans feel about the ticket price (does it come in an email, or is it in the separate column on the stadium page?)

Simon

Bluebird99 · Cult Status

Cagliari have gone all out to please the fans this season. The board and I have worked together to involve as many fans as possible. Our stadium will undergo a face lift and increase the capacity by 2000 seasts and even though the club enjoyed some success last season, we have lowered the ticket price from £10 to £9 to give something back to the fans.

On a business side of things, we accept that we will still make more money if we continue to sell out every week. Then if promotion is achieved, we will look at it again next season.

We are also introducing 5 games next season where under 16's will get in for free. We have sent out letters to all our season ticket holders with a 15% off home shirt vouchers also with free name printing for the next 2 weeks.

We believe we will continue to keep attracting fans to the ground and we hope that we can give them some happy times there this season.

Davies-Evans, Out!