tbh I like the rule change but just think it shouldn't come in half way through the season

Simon, 

Surely though we should be allowed to have our opinion on it? It's not meant to be a dictatorship, Richard may not have thought of it. It's an "Upgrades" section where ideas are asked for, hence why I brought this up. 

Steve

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Simon wrote:

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I think Richard will have taken into account both sides and will have made a decision based on what is best for the game. And maybe that decision should be accepted instead of constantly criticised

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i agree it should come in at the start of next season, but i think its a good rule. as someone stated in the other thread, with some managers its down to who you know with regards loans

This is no dig at the managers personally but it's no surprise that the managers of Athletico Madrid, Milan and Liverpool all favour it. Big clubs will because they can send out their youngsters, get them games and do it for free.

 

Big clubs will like it, small clubs won't....I honestly think it's as simple as that.

true it would seem to favour Liverpool on the face of it but it doesn't favour Cadiz who I am chairman off as due to the debts they have and the fact they basically have to sell off all the decent players at the club, are going to need to rely on loans who until this rule change were free.

Plus I am one of the people who have been critised for having too many loans in my team previously so it could actually work against me but I just think it might be worth giving it a go to see how it effects things.

-- Edited by mg1 on Friday 25th of June 2010 11:40:50 AM

paulh_85 wrote:

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however, it does stop people going nuts and totally relying and building teams around loan players, and its not just lower league clubs that have done that. then, when that manager moves clubs, they leave their previous club in the s**t with a team full of no players/old players.

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Exactly. And I agree with Benjy on the other thread when he said about it showing manager's real ability - teams in the low leagues that bring in high rated players should do better in the league, thus earning more money and therefore paying off the cost of the loan. There is something seriously wrong if high rated players are playing in low leagues and the team are not performing. And it wont be the team's fault; the blame will rest soley on the shoulders of the manager. It will just better show manager's capabilities within the game.

what should also be considered is that if managers do stop taking players on loan because of wages etc ( I am still not convinced that will happen though) then the bigger clubs will be less likely to buy players who still need a few years in the lower leagues to improve as no one would take them on loan therefore making it easier for the smaller clubs to get hold of them on a permanent basis which is surely a better scenario.

I honestly don't things will change a great deal in relation to loans though I think you will find managers will adapt to the rules with the way they manage there teams and there will still be plenty of loans and activity in the lower leagues 

-- Edited by mg1 on Friday 25th of June 2010 12:43:06 PM

-- Edited by mg1 on Friday 25th of June 2010 12:43:56 PM

I  think you are being a touch pessimistic Steve. I am sure the rule will have some benefits and some negatives for everyone but on the whole most will adapt accordingly- I certainly don't think it will cripple any teams. The thing that will cripple teams most is poor management regardless of the rules beside in the unlikely event of  Armageddon on the back of the rule change then it would surely be addressed if its not too late - .

-- Edited by mg1 on Friday 25th of June 2010 12:51:52 PM

fair enough although I disagree,  I suppose we are going to find out soon as it looks like the change is going to happen. One last thing I will say is that I wasn't really a big fan of the changes to the tatics when they were announced but I have to admit that it was a very good change. You made good points but i think we should just wait and see how it works out now, maybe just stock pile some food and water incase it all comes crashing down 

-- Edited by mg1 on Friday 25th of June 2010 12:59:56 PM

This discussion is confusing if it is in two different places but me and Benjyg both agreed with the change in the other thread and we manage Nottingham Forest and Athletic Bilbao. Are they big teams? or are the teams with 6 loan players worried when they have to cut back me and Benjyg will over take them!

It will be harder for me to loan a player like Ramsey out because he is a good player and will be on wages much higher than other players in that league. The only big teams it will help are the big teams loaning out rubbish players. I bought Napoli and one important part of the plan for my new manager was not to rely on loans because success with loans would just make him move to a new team and leave me with the same players but years older. I was lucky to get a manager who agreed with my plans and is putting them in perfectly. Should he be punished because he has a plan and teams who have no plan get to loan in much 6 much better players for free all season that doesn't seem fair

The discussion shouldnt be big teams v small teams it should be small teams with a plan v small teams planning on using their team as a step to a new team

Lower teams cant afford a team full of loans in real life. How many people would send back a player they have on full season loan if they had the choice?

I think most full season loans are so cheap their wages will have little to no affect or they are so important to that team the manager would want to keep them even paying the wages. The last reason would be that a season long loan is usually part of a feeder club arrangement so you wouldn't cancel it even if you had the choice because of the other benefits

If managers are worried about wages don't put any half season loans down after week 11. I bet every body still does!

It should be up to the manager to gamble on high wage loans or not. If you gamble and don't go up you should be hit with money trouble just like any team or business would. Teams shouldnt get to gamble and if they fail they lose nothing

I am a big club so may be my views will stay between me and my manager at Napoli

Stu

Ah if we were all had the same views life would be boring eh!

I like the idea and it adds another interesting addition to the game.

I personally have benefitted from a feeder club arrangment in the past where I had several players from Simon - would I do it again under the new rule? damm right!

Yes its a gamble but only if you are wreckless, I cant see a problem with it.

As a lower league manager such risks then define your managing ability.

I dont think it will stop the smaller clubs going after the loan stars that could make or break their season.

an it get any worse ?

The idea is good but the timing isn't.
You can't do it half way through a season.

Consideration must also be given to an agreement with the loaning Club as to who pays.
A big Club may want to pay for the experience the player will get.
A manager looking to fill a gap may offer to pay.



But not this season.

For what its worth I like the rule change but agree it would be fairer to bring in at the start of next season.

As Stu mentions, teams like Everton, or even my own could gamble on bringing in 4 or 5 loans and then gain promotion, or not and lose everything. It would have been quite easy to take 4 loans from Stu and gain promotion this season or last but thats not the game.... is it ??

Clubs should manage their budget and it is unfair on teams who are trying to generate talent and buy young and develop.